This was one of those Ultra-Mormon weeks where everyone in our family had multiple church activities to attend. There was something every day of the week, except Monday. I was standing with a friend, waiting for one of them to start and noticed that hardly anyone was there. He shrugged his shoulders and said, “Mormon Standard Time.”
I’ve heard that expression all my life. It is basically a cute way of saying that members of the Church are chronically late. I began to wonder if it is just us, so, with the power of Google, I ran some searches to see. Here are the results of my study:
Search Term: Google Results
“Amish Standard Time”: 1
“Catholic Standard Time”: 5
“Methodist Standard Time”: 6
“Lutheran Standard Time”: 118
“Mormon Standard Time”: 17,200
“Muslim Standard Time”: 25,500
“Baptist Standard Time”: 32,200
I learned two things from this exhaustive study:
1) In our own, sheltered little Mormon world, I thought the whole “Standard Time” thing was uniquely ours. Not so. We are merely in the middle of the pack.
Without going into too much depth, I will give proper praise to the Amish for being punctual, but feel that I should point out that they have never had to finish a game or TV show before they rushed out the door.
I was surprised that the most ancient of the religions have this same struggle, and for much longer than the rest of us. And most of the churches of the Reformation did very well, except the Baptists. Why, I don’t know.
2) Members of the LDS Church haven’t cornered the market on bad manners and poor self-management. Nope, we are not alone in this. Sadly, one would hope that we would not even be on the list as a people, but we are. Being late to church functions is almost part of our religious DNA. And we should be plenty embarrassed by it.
If you listen closely, you can already hear people getting their dander up, and preparing to type the words “They might be coming to church late, but at least they are coming! Would you rather they not come at all?”
My reply to such a comment would be, “Duh. Any idiot knows that. And of course it is better that they come late, rather than not at all.”
Yet God has clearly stated that his house is a “house of order” (D&C 109:8) and he has asked us through his Apostles to come to Sacrament Meeting early to listen to the prelude music and prepare ourselves. (Dallin Oaks) It is even a big enough deal that the Handbook and leader training has asked that the bishopric to be in their place on the stand 7-10 minutes before Sacrament Meeting begins to set the tone.
It does matter.
Now I can’t get into the heads of the saints that show up late every single week, and everyone is living with different challenges that might make it more difficult, but I do have a few observations about it.
• I don’t see how someone could look at the clock every Sunday for 20 weeks and say “Oh my goodness! It’s already 8:57am – we are going to be late again. It seems like after the first 15 times, the surprise might wear off, and you might make some sort of adjustment.
• The people I see coming to church late somehow have their kids at the bus stop on time every school day, and they are able to hold down their own jobs, which makes me think that it is more about their feelings regarding the importance of church, than it is time management.
• Sitting on the stand as a Bishop, I would notice who consistently waited until after the Sacrament was administered, and I would worry about them. The fear was that they either did not understand the Sacrament, or they were avoiding it.
• So many church meetings don’t start on time, that MST is a habit that has some justification. (More on this later)
• Being early to Sacrament Meeting, and reverently preparing, can make a gigantic impact on what we get out of that meeting. Personal revelation, peace, the comfort of the Spirit – All those things are forfeited when we come blazing in through the cultural hall and plop down on the metal chairs with kids in tow as the sacrament hymn is being sung.
Personally, I have been in both camps. When we were a younger family, and the four eldest FOMLs were just little squirts, we were late to church quite often. It was always a bustle, and often contentious.
Then one day, I was called to serve in the High Council. Our meetings were held at 6:00am, and I would go straight to our 8:00am Sacrament Meeting and meet up with my family. And they were always there – my EC and the four kids would be sitting reverently on a cushioned pew.
They were never late anymore…unless I was home. I learned that I was the problem. What had been happening was that when both my EC and I were in charge, nobody was in charge. When it was just up to her, she made it happen. Like a boss.
While Mormon Standard Time is a result of bad manners and poor self-managment, I would also point out that as a culture, it makes sense, and in a way, it is well-earned.
If meetings don’t start on time, why should I feel badly about coming late?
As I mentioned at the top, it was a busy church-week for my family. Looking back, I think only one of the meetings actually started on time. Well no wonder people are conditioned to come late! MST is self-inflicted.
One of the best examples of self-inflicted late-start is Mutual. Let’s say that Mutual is supposed to start at 7:00pm, but the youth straggle in for about 15 minutes. Why? Well, at 7:00, when it is time to start, there is hardly anybody there. So the powers that be decide to wait and start after more people have arrived. At 7:10, there are a few more people sitting there thinking, “I shouldn’t have come so early, there is nobody here.” And that makes perfect sense – especially at Stake dances. They finally start at 7:15.
The next week, when it is time to go to Mutual, the youth says to himself, “I’m not going at 7:00, because it never starts until 7:15.” And he’s right.
You know who is to blame for MST on Mutual nights? The youth leaders. First, for not having things start on time, and second, rolling in late themselves. That sends a clear message to the youth that being on time is not important, and it is OK to be late. And this goes for most other meetings as well.
The solution? Follow the example of the brethren. Start on time. Can you think back to the last time that General Conference started 10 minutes late? Me neither. Start exactly on time – every time. Even if there are only three of us singing the opening hymn. Yes, it takes effort and organization – I believe it is part of fulfilling a stewardship.
Eventually, many will catch on and start coming on time. Nobody likes walking into a meeting late. If we are in leadership positions, we need to lead by example, and be where we are supposed to be, when we are supposed to be there.
Sure, it is better to be late than not come at all. But it is best to be on time, because we might just be missing out on something great. And maybe, just maybe, we can breed the MST mutation out of our church culture.
When I was listening to archived Gen Conf talks, I stumbled upon this gem that addresses the punctuality issue. http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1976/10/proper-self-management?lang=eng Definitely worth a read (or listen — I LOVE how they have the old video clips available for some talks from before I was even born!). =)
Here’s a great one-liner from it: “Serenity and poise are not the companions of those who lack the courtesy and judgment to be on time.”
My hubby & I had 5 boys, and we were seldom late. I planned 10 minutes to get thim into the car, another 10 minutes to get them out of the car , and often as not took them to church dressed as they were. PJs, wet diaper, what ever. Once at the church parking lot, every one was finely groomed and dressed and we walked in with 5 minutes to spare. I figured leaving w/ a dirty face or pajamas is better than screaming. A wet washcloth, a comb and some extra hugs go a long way in keeping the peace once we were actually at the church and didn’t have to deal w/ traffic anymore. Now that the kids are grown, I sometimes forget that hubby & I still need the 10 minutes total to get in and out of the car, so we are occassionally “late”. Always there before the opening prayer.
“They were never late anymore…unless I was home. I learned that I was the problem. What had been happening was that when both my EC and I were in charge, nobody was in charge. When it was just up to her, she made it happen. Like a boss.”
We used to be late often and have to sit in the back on the hard chairs. At the beginning of the year, my husband was called to be in the bishopric and he isn’t home in the morning. We are now at least 20 minutes early every week. I think you nailed it on the head. I was wanting him to help get everyone going and he was wanting me to do it. Now that it’s just me, I just get it done. Plus he was super distracting. It’s easier to get up and get going when there isn’t a warm body next to you to cuddle with.
I know that I’m (ahem) late to this party, but we were in the Bahamas this week.
My dad HATES Mormon Standard Time. Absolutely loathes it. He instilled the same feeling in me. For the majority of the year when I went to church with my mom we were always late. Every single Sunday we walked at least during the opening hymn. Lots of times we didn’t make it until the sacrament was being passed. I was always extremely embarrassed. When I was visiting my dad? We were in our seats 10 minutes before the meeting started.
Now as a parent I have made it my goal to be out the door for us to be on time. I have found that being early is a lofty goal, given the ages of our children, but I’m hoping to raise the bar as they get older.
I’m also in the YW presidency and it really rubs me that we start late every single week. I realize that I should just start on time and let the girls learn the lesson. Actually, every auxialary group in our ward starts late every time and it’s really hard to get my boys to be serious about not running around in the cultural hall before Cub Scouts when the leaders aren’t even in the Primary room when their meeting is supposed to be starting. *sigh*
Now That I am home, and I am back to commenting- (1)SUPER judgey post. (2) we should be listening to the Lord for instruction not others, and what they will think of us. I used to carry a lot of guilt for this, and one day as I was crying and tying a shoe, knowing we were going to be late, I had a very peaceful feeling come over me -and I knew the Lord knew I was doing my best, and that was all he was asking. He knew my heart. He still does.
I will pass your note on to Dallin Oaks and let him know you think he is “Super judgey” for counseling people to show up on time.
(According to the theology I believe in, if an Apostle counsels me to do something, it IS the Lord’s instruction for me.)
My military background instilled a sense of punctuality and it wasn’t until I married that not always being on time was a challenge. At first it bothered me. I would make a big deal out of it, and as I learned that this is something that she and her family struggles with I came to a simple realization – it doesn’t really matter.
I found that no matter how much I insisted, or helped, or prepared, it would cause anxiety for her and for the kids.
And for what really?
Western culture is obsessed with time. We dwell on the mistakes of the past, and scheme grand visions for the future. Rarely are we simply in the moment, here, right now.
I found it interesting that your list of search results don’t include “Buddhist Standard Time”. Look it up, and you’ll find results quite different. The Buddhism monk, Thich Nhat Hanh emphasizes an approach to living mindfully, and “discovering the magic of the present moment”.
Maybe the byproduct of living more mindful of the present, all of us would simply find ourselves in the right place at the right time, because ultimately – no matter where you are … there you are.
Another thing – why is everyone so concerned about what everyone else is doing? If people are late for meetings, so what. Simply acknowledge them with a smile and continue. If you attend a meeting that starts late, take the opportunity appreciate a moment of quiet meditation until the meeting begins.
As a convert to the LDS Church, I found myself being overly self critical and driven by guilt (real or self created). I have to admit that as I get holder the Buddhist approach seems a happier and more tenable path.
While it does sound peaceful, and discovering the magic of the moment would probably be wise and healthy for all of us, Buddhism holds none of the teaching, authority or ordinances to actually save anyone.
As the cheesy 90s show “Adventures in Wonderland” taught me:
“Better late then never, but better never late.”
That was a very wise caterpillar.
I have always liked President Monson’s story about his mother sewing shirts from a pattern. If she were to try sewing from a shirt and then from that shirt, it would become too wonky to wear. We have a pattern and expectations so that we know how things should be. If not, we wouldn’t know what to work for or how to measure our progress. That said, not everyone is going to measure up every time. But we must still have the pattern to check ourselves against. We check OURSELVES against the PATTERN. So I will not check you against me or me against you. I found it pretty funny and a little frustrating that my husband read the post, laughed at your family’s learning experience and moved along. How do men do that? 😉
I am never one to judge why someone walks in late- but I do agree with you 100% that we should all STRIVE to be on time to our meetings and even arrive a little early. I agree 100% that all meetings should start on time REGARDLESS of whether or not many people are present. Like you said, the brethren set the example and the Lord does run a house of order.
Mote/Beam. That is all.
Oh my goodness I sooooo agree with you on starting meetings on time. It doesn’t matter if there are 2 or 200. If it starts at 7, start at 7. And maybe it’s because I have to be on time. I get frantic if I’m running behind.
A coach used to say, “If you’re early, you’re on time; if you’re on time, you’re late; and if you’re late, you’re left.” I have adopted this saying. I love it and live by it. (Although I try not to get too ruffled when others don’t abide by the same rule.)
Before I knew my ex-husband, he was called as the FHE leader for the YSAs. The meeting was suppose to start at 7 PM but no one showed up until about 7:45. So, his first week he sang, he prayed, he gave a lesson, and was enjoying the activity ALL BY HIMSELF when the first attendees arrived. After about two weeks, everyone was there at 7 PM.
love this!
I shouldn’t comment on this because I hate to be late. I NEED the transition time. I think I stress everyone out around me with my need for punctuality. I’m irrational because I know everyone else will be late. Doesn’t matter though, I. Must. Be. On. Time. Great post MMM.
What’s percentage of eternity is 15 minutes? Big deal some people come late. At least they are there. Like the old about the who comes to church smelling of cigaret smoke. He should be the one most welcomed, not scorned. Patience is a virtue.
15 minutes is nothing in the scope of eternity, but it is important enough that prophets and apostles feel the need to talk about arriving early to prepare for the single most important thing you will do all week.
Holy smokes people it isn’t rocket science. If you are chronically 15 minutes late start getting ready 15 minutes earlier. I have children… I have a husband… Blah. Blah. Blah.
If we are leaving for church 1/2 hr before it starts (it’s a 10 minute drive) we consider ourselves late.
It drives me crazy that leadership starts our meetings 5 minutes late…so everyone has a chance to get there.
Our boys aren’t late for Scouts, but I just about blew a gasket when one of them told me their leader wanted to start scouts at 6:45 “so maybe everyone would be here by 7”. Guess who we were usually waiting on to get there? The leaders.
I have also been at a meeting that was scheduled to start at 6pm and it hadn’t started by 6:20. When I asked why we were waiting “well so-and-so hasn’t shown up”. We ended up waiting until 6:30 and at that point someone called so-and-so and they weren’t even planning on coming to the meeting. So thank you for wasting my time for someone that not only is chronically late (to the point that the ward is now planning meetings around their tardiness) but doesn’t even show up?!?
If you aren’t late for work and school there is no excuse to be late for Church.
Amen…
amen!
Many chronically late people I’ve spoken to honestly don’t feel they are disrespecting anyone or anything by being late. They just seem to operate that way, and struggle to get places on time. Trying to do the best they can. It seems to be a lifelong struggle for some. As with any principle we discuss here, I don’t think the point is to judge others, but to find ways we ourselves can improve.
I appreciate your reminder, and the perspective of how important it is to be at Sacrament meeting early. Sometimes we’re consistently early, and other times, it’s a huge accomplishment just to arrive at church within 5 or 10 minutes of 9am, depending on how many factors derailed the launch sequence. (tantrums, diaper explosions, lost shoes, etc.) My husband is getting earlier and earlier. I think when he’s an old mormon man he’ll just have to stay at the church all week to be “on time”. The morning does actually go more smoothly when he’s at meetings though we’re not always as prompt. Let’s see, in 12.5 years, he’s had meetings for about 7 or so. (He was a perpetual exec secretary for awhile there.)
No reason to brag about promptness records. Or feel upset at those who are not.
Thank you Alyn! As someone who has suffered from this my whole life, your comment is deeply appreciated. I may not always be early or exactly on time, but I keep trying – especially to never be so late that I miss the sacrament or it’s beautiful hymns. It may have taken me longer than most to truly understand the magnitude of that sacred ordinance but once I did my perspective permanently changed. Because I know how vitally important the sacrament is, I have always done everything in my power to attend sacrament meeting, even when on vacation, regardless of how difficult or inconvenient it may be. I am often perplexed at how easily some members can justify taking a vacation from sacrament just because they are on vacation. Perhaps they are equally perplexed at how I always struggle to be on time. It’s a good thing we don’t receive our final grades from each other because no matter how much expertise, experience or qualifications we may have, ONLY the Lord knows the true nature and intent of our hearts.
I will admit. I go to church late, most of the time. I enjoy it…I rejoice in it….why?
My father would make us be 30 minutes early to church (for absolutely no reason), to family events where your annoying them that your early, to parties, to every single thing he could think of, he would make us be early. That meant yelling, screaming, hitting if necessary so we would be ready when he felt his OCD need to leave.
*Please note I am not saying being early to church is OCD…but my father’s situation it was.
So early = anxiety to me. Late…I can still breath.
As for church, it really doesn’t help that we always have 9 am church. I live in a very rural branch. I’m not fond of 9 am church. I’m actually so excited next week because it’s stake conference, and they are FINALLY broadcasting it to our church..so we don’t have to get there until 10 am …woot woot!
We have family dynamics that play..aka husband lives in another state..we see him on weekends..try to cram everything we possibly can on Saturday, meaning by Sunday morning we are all tired, sore and back to tired.
Anyways, I’m sure I need therapy, my daddy issues are still persuasive today, which isn’t good. But I do totally get the annoyance of it all, and hope to find a nice balance some day.
Dear Anon at 2:23pm,
Aren’t we glad that MMM doesn’t officially represent the church itself? Clearly, from all the commentary, MST (as we shall now affectionally call “being late”) is a common problem that I think ALL of us have suffered with at one point or another. As the only active parent and three rowdy boys, I too had my season of MST. With teenagers, I had the MST season of not only having family members be late, but also getting up in the middle to “have a restroom break”. Luckily, I get to now be in the season of just me and my EC so it’s pretty easy to be on time and maintain some reverence. (unless one of us gets the giggles).
The beauty that I hope you’ll see, is that we all go through similar struggles. We’ve all been there or will be there. And hopefully, we can lose our judgy mcjudgerpants at the door and embrace whomever comes at whatever time they get there knowing that we too may be in their shoes one day. I think MMM’s post was getting to that point and at any rate, I love to see that he and others struggle with the same crap I do. Don’t take him too serious, use his commentary as entertainment and enlightenment when the Spirit guides you to. I would suggest that you only worry if you feel self concious when reading something on lds.org.
MMM is just a middle aged man who is muddling through like the rest of us who read his words and leave our comments. We are in the same game trying to get the same W in our tally columns.
If all else fails, drink a diet coke and have some skittles. Pretty much makes everything better.
I would like to add that I am not “just” a muddling middle aged man.
There is so, so much more.
As a Primary President with a reverse schedule (meaning Primary starts first) this is a constant problem! I have teachers that show up 10 minutes late continually! We’ve tried being nice and encourage our teachers to arrive 10 minutes early, but it hasn’t worked. Now we sit in the class and wait for the teacher to come. These are little kids that we can’t leave in a classroom alone. It’s a problem!
We have that same problem! We have a small Primary, though, and we all have opening exercises together, so that’s where we start. I can’t imagine how bad it would be if we had classes first!
I enjoy your posts, MMM, but I must admit that some of them and the comments made by others, make me very self conscious of anything I do within a ward context. I had no idea so many people were bugged by so many things. I love the Gospel and I am somewhat saddened that members don’t use their “observational skills” in more uplifting ways. While we should strive for the ideal, noticing ways in which others fall short, creates enmity between people that is counter productive to a Zion-like society.
If you have spent much time on my blog, you would quickly note that a huge portion of my writing is about things that I struggle with, my flaws, foibles, etc. (Patience, temper, soda – to name a few.) I am first in line to admit that I have shortcomings, and I put them out on display for the whole world to poke at.
So it always baffles me when I get a comment like this that fabricates some sort of “judgmental enmity” towards other people and the shortcomings we may, or may not, all share in our church culture.
We ALL fall short. It is no grand secret. That is one of the great adventures of life – learning how to get better bit-by-bit.
We can’t talk about this adventure? Or do we have to pretend these shortcomings don’t exist for fear of striking a nerve, or bruising some pride.
I am sorry that you feel enmity. I hope you can work through it.
Anonymous: Since the church is more of a hospital for sinners than a museum for saints, I’m always glad to get spiritual first aid from somebody like Middle-Aged Mormon Man. I can’t count the number of times I’ve said to myself after reading his blog, “that’s exactly what I needed to hear.”
I guess I should preface my comment by saying I have had my patience tried by latecomers. I taught early morning seminary for almost ten years and have been a RS president, YW president, and Primary president. People constantly arriving late to meetings can be frustrating. I just found for me, personally, when I focused on how much it bugged me, my focus on the person was less benevolent and not where I personally wanted to be. I have tried to work through it and I guess I just wanted to share my personal perspective. I apologize for being too heavy handed on what clearly is a humorous and witty observation of Mormon culture.
I’m a little surprised at the tone of many of the comments. Certainly there is room for improvement from leadership all the way down to individuals making on-time attendance a priority. But instead of condemning others as selfish and inconsiderate could we possibly look a little closer and see if there was any way we could help? Many of the folks who run late are indeed dealing with difficult children and other situations. They may come from a home life that is less than supportive or ideal. I know that as a young mother with an inactive husband and extremely boisterous children that getting to sacrament meeting on time and making it through was a miserable experience. I was highly aware I was late and that my kids were being disruptive but at that point in my life that was the best I could do. The looks of annoyance and impatience I received from Ward members were hurtful. Some understanding and maybe a kind word would have made a huge difference. We don’t know the struggles others are dealing with. Maybe a little “he who is without sin, let him cast the first stopwatch” would be something to think about.
Wish there was a LIKE button 🙂 I’m afraid I’m well beyond having a good excuse for being late now, but the temptation to sleep through church (especially with three teenagers who could sleep till noon, no problem) is really strong for me. I definitely agree with “better late than never.” Though, as MMM said, we all have things we have to work on. Tolerance may be one of them. Not judging may be another. And being on time may be another.
MST is one of the biggest pet peeves I have! It drives me crazy!
I’ve always felt that people who are chronically late are selfish because they think their time is more valuable than my time. As an auxiliary leader I always start my meetings on time, whether everyone is there or not. It only takes one or two meetings for them to realize I won’t wait for them. And my kids know it’s not even an option. It takes us 20 minutes to drive to our church building so my kids know that we leave the house 35 minutes before whatever meeting starts to be there 10-15 minutes early to find a seat and get ready for the meeting to start… no exceptions. If they aren’t in the car and ready to go they will have their mama’s wrath to deal with! And they don’t want that! 🙂
We live within walking distance of the church and every week I try to get everyone to church 15 minutes early. My husband though, is always the last one ready and if we wait for him we would be there somewhere between 5 minutes early and 15 minutes late (yesterday he came and sat down with us during the sacrament hymn). Should the kids and I wait for him or should we continue to go without him and save him a seat? I like the idea of us all going at the same time, but on the other hand, waiting too long usually causes me feelings of great annoyance. Thoughts?
As YW President I tried to address this issue (after discussion and agreement in Branch Council) by getting Mutual started at 7pm. More often than not those assigned to conduct, pray, and give spiritual thoughts were not there when we started but we made it work. I was released about 6 months ago but recently attended a YW recognition activity and it was about 7:20 before they got started.
Now as RS Meeting Coordinator I’m fighting the same battle – our RS weekday meetings never start at the appointed time. Drives me batty! We’ll work on it at some point but I have to prioritize the things that need working on. Unfortunately, punctuality is trumped by gospel teaching and fellowship.
Good article! Anyone can be on time if they really want to. Meetings can be so much more spiritual when we start on time and people aren’t straggling in.
Another thing: there are very few people (children included) that can’t wait one hour and ten minutes to go to the bathroom. So, why do so many people get up and leave Sacrament meeting to go??? That is very distracting!!!
Paula Burkett
I have a very fun-loving 3 year old. There is nothing wrong with her, other than the fact that it is in her nature to move. Constantly. I have found that the only way that I can feel the spirit in meetings, not to mention keep things quiet for those around us, is to take her out every 15 -20 minutes in Sacrament meeting to have a walk. We talk about how we should walk in the halls, we get a drink, sometimes we go outside and play Simon Says. When we go back to the meeting, she is quiet, she is happy, and I can actually hear some of the talk. I only start the “walks” after Sacrament, and only as a reward for quiet behavior. I think being on time is one thing, and having to go in and out with children is another. If you don’t like it, don’t sit by a door.
Man, I read all these comments about not liking late people, and I suddenly want to hide. We’re usually late for church. I read this post and felt guilty and a need for change. It’s something that I’ve always struggled with–being late. I just didn’t realize how many people hated me for being late. :/
I do like your idea about mutual activities. We always start opening exercises 15 minutes late, and I’ve gotten into the habit of showing up late just b/c it never starts on time. I live in South Texas, and I went to an activity once that started an hour late. It’s a terrible problem here, and I’ve kinda been sucked in. Why show up on time when I just have to wait an hour for it to start? I should do better.
Thanks for the post. Your posts always get me thinking.
Oh please . Nobody hates you or late people. But we do get frustrated. Especially if the on- time people kill themselves to get there.
We all have weaknesses that we need to work on. That’s what it’s all about.
I think it’s just the always-on-time people who are vocal in these comments. Don’t worry; there are plenty of late-comers feeling chastised right now. I don’t think they hate US, just our tardiness.
You’re right. “Hate” was the wrong word. I get frustrated at church for a lot of other things, but I’m sure people get frustrated with me, too. I’ve just never seen so much frustration about something I do in one place. haha
Oh.My.Heck! Can I add the loudest AMEN ever?!?
You’ve nailed it. We are our own worst enemy at MST. Notice though, General Conference never starts late. Also promptly on time.
Def need to work on this more
I finally got around to responding to this… (small wink)
I agree: start on time. Arrive on time. Be kind to the latecomers. But start on time.
We have found it most effective over time to have bishoprics in place ten minutes before sacrament meeting begins if we want members to be in place, too. We just got a new bishopric and they are finding their feet; I suspect within a few weeks they’ll have it down.
As a bishop I used to plead with my ward to come on time, counting the number of people who arrived between the beginning of the opening hymn and the sacrament. Sometimes it was 1/3 of the ward! Not sure I’d take the same approach if I had it to do again.
(Some of those latecomers, by the way, may not be arriving at work or school on time, either.)
Interestingly, when I lived in Venezuela, church started on time every week. With most people in their seats. Other activities not so much (the Christmas party that was to start at 4 finally started around 8…). But Sunday meetings were on time.
Ditto. I have 6 kids, 11 and under, and we are always 15 minutes early. My husband is in the bishopric, so I’ve been on my own for a while now. Last January we switched to 8:30am church. I had a 3 week old newborn. I practically put the kids to bed in their church clothes (not really, but I was sorely tempted)! My kids ate Pop-Tarts every Sunday for breakfast because it was quick, easy, and they could do it independently. This year church is later, but somehow it still takes a lot of effort to get there early. But it is worth it to me. My kids throw fits at church every week. It is just part of life I guess. But I have noticed that being early helps my kids to be more reverent for the meeting because they have a few minutes to settle in, get a drink, etc. It can be done. It just requires some sacrifice, like any other good and worthy cause.
Ann Romney said she DID put her sons to bed in their church clothes so they would make it to church on time and dressed appropriately. 🙂
Wrinkled but on time 🙂
Shoot! I mean MMM!
I have six kids under the age of 12. We are ALWAYS early. Always. Great post, MNM!
I haven’t read all the comments, so this might have already been addressed. It’s nice to say and think that you should get to church early to sit and enjoy the reverent music and prepare for the meeting. That’s completely unrealistic however. Maybe when I’m 50. I have 5 kids 10 and under and if I make it through 20 minutes of the meeting without my younger one’s throwing a fit it’s a minor miracle. If I show up early, my luck has run out before the meeting has even started.
I always felt that way too, until I heard a talk that encouraged us to get there early (and sit in the front) because our kids would do better. We decided to try it and the kids were more reverent. The improvement was small but there was an improvement.
my first FAVORITE post of your blog is this one. like many of your commenters, i don’t like being late to ANYTHING. my hubs and i have made it our habit to be a few minutes early to as many events as humanly possible. we are converts, btw. in the black community, some people refer to MST as “colored people time” to condone their constant tardiness. the sacrament hour is way too important to hubs and i to be tardy. it’s just that simple.
I appreciate our leaders starting our Sacrament meeting on time. It is possible to arrive early with preparation and determination. As organist, I do tend to use the longer hymns as opening hymns to give latecomers an extra minute of leeway.
Pruniemae
Let me give you another Amen!
So, MMM – I have a question for you. I have lived in several wards that had small groups of YM. Consistently there are brethren from the Melchizedek Priesthood that are asked or simply volunteer to help with the Sacrament, sometimes to bless, but usually to pass. And, consistently there is one (or two) YM that show up after the meeting has started. The MP brother gets up to leave so the YM can magnify his priesthood and do his duty. I understand wanting to support the young man and help him magnify the priesthood, but I struggle with what we are teaching the YM by letting them come late and just having the MP just get up and leave when the YM has *finally* arrived. Talking with the YM or having a lesson about the issue hasn’t helped. It seems the alternative is to tell the YM that the position is filled (by the MP), thanks, and to go sit with his family, but that seems a little harsh. I don’t mind harsh in the proper situations, I’m just not sure if this is one. And, since I’ve had a leader that was always on the kinder, gentler side, I’ve never had to do this (although I’ve considered it). What are your thoughts about teaching punctuality to the YM in a situation like this? Comments from anyone else?
Strangely, I have no opinion on this.
Weird. I know.
As a mom of 5 sons, I am going to chime in on this one. We are rarely late, we usually arrive at church 20-30 minutes early so that our Aaronic Priesthood sons can prepare the sacrament and take care of whatever building duties they may have. Our boys know that if they are not ready to go, they walk (I realize this doesn’t work unless you live close to the church) Our oldest got left when he was about 16 and wandered in about 20 minutes late. Never happened again, he knew we were not impressed. They also have been taught that if they are not ready and seated to pass or bless the sacrament by the appointed time, that they will not be able to fulfill their priesthood duties that day. There is no wandering over to the passers row to take someone’s place. I would definately send them back to sit with their parents. It really bugs me when the sacrament row is musical chairs! It also bothers me when a Priest saunters up to bless the sacrament late. It is all about pride and ego; “Look at me, I’m going up front now.” Yes, we have one of these in our ward and the parents are oblivious!
If you remember me from my comment above, I’m the habitually late mom. BUT, I would never send my son up to the front to slip into place with the Aaronic Priesthood. I always feel bad when we’re late enough that my boys can’t go do the Sacrament, but it makes me that much more motivated to get there on time the next week (and I remind them the next week that they were late and a Melchizedek Priesthood holder had to pass the Sacrament in their place). We have only 4 young men, and my boys are 2 of them, so they do have a lot of responsibility. But whoever is sitting on the row when the announcements starts is the one who passes the Sacrament, period.
Doug, I have the same issues as you. It happens in our ward ALL the time! As a parent I would never allow my son to go up and take “his place” if we were late. However, as a youth leader……I felt sorry and empathetic with the YM who were late…. not due to their own tardiness, but due to their family’s lack of commitment to be on time. They were embarrassed by their family’s actions and felt it wasn’t fair if they weren’t allowed to partake in the passing of the sacrament. I agree. It sure can be a fine line. Everything is not as black and white as it seems. One time my own Priest aged son….suddenly received a traumatic nose bleed during the opening Hymn. He excused himself very quickly to the washroom, got the nosebleed under control with my help…..and quickly ran back to his place to bless the sacrament…..he could hear the last verse being sung of the sacrament hymn by now……when he got in there he was so happy to see that the older Priesthood holder stepped down from the table so my son could take his place. Some of these young Priesthood holders take their responsibilities seriously and really want to serve. Sad that some of the adults can support and help them by being on TIME!
We’re often lobby-dwellers due to snow and terrible parking. We attend church at the stake center and there are parking spots enough for only 1/3 the ward. You’d think that would make you think “we should show up earlier to get a spot”, and sure, that would work for the 9am ward… but not the later wards.
What makes me cringe… and tempts MST for me, is 20+ minutes of announcements. Ugh! If there are THAT many announcements, they should be on a hand-out.
I do hate being late. I like having my pick of seats. Especially since our building is about a thousand years old and the benches in front of you are right at your knees, and with a little kid, I need an easy exit. And I really hate meetings starting late. Teachers need time to teach, and I need time to learn and absorb.
Here is a quote I learned in a Youth Sunday School at a Methodist Church I attended; “Early is on time, On time is late and late is unacceptable.”
I live by these words today!
My dad always taught us that if we were on time, we were late. I’ve taught my children the same thing. It’s about common courtesy.
I am a punctuality nut…and I abhor hearing “Mormon Standard Time” used as an excuse…and I find it pathetic. I’m afraid that it’s preaching the the choir…and those who are late will always be late. I was so glad to be released from leading the music in Sacrament meeting b/c of 6 years, I was frustrated to see the same families coming in at the same late time. And…now, yeah. I’m near the front of the the chapel and I can’t see what I don’t want to see…
It is my understanding that the weekly meeting of the Quorum of the Twelve begins at 8:00 am, but everyone is there by 7:30 am, so they start early. One of them was asked why they don’t just schedule the meeting for 7:30 instead. He supposedly answered, “Because everyone would show up at 7:00. Think of the long-term implications that would have.”
In 1975 I attended a meeting with about 1,000 other priesthood leaders that was scheduled to begin at 1:00 pm. At 12:53 pm, the person who was conducting stood and said, “I think everyone is here who is coming. Let’s begin.” And we did.
Vaughn J. Featherstone in a General Conference talk said:
“Let me talk about another thing that keeps us from being pure in heart. We need to purge out of our lives the desire to come to meetings late and leave early.
I remember last conference I attended in the Assembly Hall; I was at the priesthood meeting. At the close of our great and beloved prophet’s wonderful discourse and counsel to us, at least 200 or 300 men got up and just started moving en masse toward all the doors. The closing hymn hadn’t been sung, the prayer hadn’t been rendered. And these men, inconsiderate, lacking in discipline, simply got up and moved out of the Assembly Hall to save five minutes.
I wonder, brethren, and I love you, but I just wonder how you can do it. I don’t see any of the men that I prize most, leaving any meetings early except in an emergency. I believe they have the dignity to not offend God. I believe it is an offense to God when we leave meetings early, and when we come late to meetings.
It was given in a talk where he was very blunt about certain topics. He himself said, “this is not a sugar-coated presentation, it is Clorox.” Boy, howdy is the talk ever that!
A Self-Inflicted Purging by Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone
Holy Moly. What a great quote.
I love this! Being late is a major form of pride. You think your time is more valuable than others when its not. And its really not that difficult to be on time.
AMEN! Mormon Standard Time has always bothered me. I live just around the corner from church and have a neighbor whose back fence is against the church parking lot. They just have to walk through the fence to get to church and they are consistently late. Tardiness with this particular family is chronic though because the kids are late to school nearly every day, too.
I am so glad you wrote this article…so it’s not just me and mine who are bothered by the whole MST thing! I have a teenaged son who is so turned off by the lack of timeliness (and oftentimes an inefficient use of the remaining time) and all that it implies (a lack of standards, talking the talk without walking the walk, doing just enough to get by, etc.) that I can’t get him to go to his meetings with any regularity. He asks why he should take the meetings more seriously than his leaders do, and I don’t have a particularly good answer for him. I’ve spoken with our leaders at both the ward and stake levels, but other than head-nodding and “tsk-tsking”, nothing has changed. We’re a small ward and I don’t want to be contentious, so having made my grievances known, I’ve backed off. But maybe it’s time to reapply some gentle pressure.
Being a convert, it’s sometimes difficult to distinguish between church culture and the Church…I can’t tell you how much your blog has helped me to differentiate between the two!
there is nothing that ticks me off more than when I hear ‘Mormon Standard Time’, when I was activities chair person I made sure the activities always started on time (I’m not gonna lie some of it was because I didn’t want to be that much later finishing and getting home) regardless of who was there. They were late, they missed out. Our family knows what time we have to leave the house to get to church early and that’s what time we’re out the door. It’s manners and respectful and I am a little proud of being able to say that with three kids three and under I’ve never arrived after the meeting has begun… even when there’s been a snow storm!
This was such a big problem in the Stake I moved into 5 years ago that they actually reversed the meeting schedule for over 10 years. I felt like this sent the message that Priesthood/Relief Society/ YM/YW was unimportant. And shockingly enough, almost without fail 3-4 entire families would get up and walk out as soon as the Sacrament portion of the meeting was over.
Last year they changed the schedule back to Sacrament Meeting first and so far, so good with starting on time.
I learned this saying in a Methodist Youth Group – Early is on time, On time is late and late is unacceptable.
Aunt Sue
When the six kids were still at home, it suddenly dawned on me (yes, ok,the older ones were in high school) that if I planned on arriving right on time, we were late by the time we parked, came into the building, hung up coats, etc. I needed to plan to arrive at least 10 minutes early to be on time. Our family then was able to arrive in our seats during the prelude.
But why, now that I am alone, am I consistently late, sometimes very late? Must be some psychological reason, any ideas?
Alzheimers?
As a habitually late person, I think I’m that same way. I aim for the time we’re supposed to be there, and inevitably something will come up and we’ll be late. It was a real struggle to get my boys to 9 a.m. church early to prepare the Sacrament, but we usually managed. Of course, getting them there on time usually meant I was late, but at least the Sacrament was prepared. Sigh. As far as 9 a.m. church goes, we are NOT MORNING PEOPLE. Every minute early to church is another minute I could’ve been asleep. Logically I know that 5 or even 20 minutes is’t gonna make that much difference, but I’m not thinking very logically when I first wake up! We have been on time for 1:00 church this year (especially since they moved choir practice back from noon to 11, so I have time to go home in between and get people moving), but Sacrament Meeting is last, so the latecomers file into Primary/RS/Priesthood/YW late.
Um…I just got here. What’s going on? 🙂
Can someone who was here on time fill me in?
Amen, amen, AMEN!! I have always hated being late. It was a chronic problem in the home I grew up in…even for non-church events. Complaining one day to a member of our HC who also happened to be one of my teachers at the high school, he suggested that I just tell my parents I needed to be there 1/2 an hour earlier than I did. After I got over the issue of if I was lying to my parents…..I found it worked miracles! I wasn’t ever late again, except for church where my parents were aware of the meeting time.
As the mother, yes, we found we are also on-time if Dad has meetings to go to and not so much if he doesn’t. (Shhhhh…we are working on that.) But if we get everything ready on Saturday, like Tristan, we don’t have problems with being on time on Sunday (it makes a HUGE difference…even if I just know so and so is missing socks and everyone else has everything.)
I am soooo grateful for meetings (any meetings) that begin on-time!!
I love when a meeting starts on time. I hate when it goes over time and those in charge or speaking don’t care. are you going to do a post on that?
Did a long time ago. You need to read the archives!
http://middle-agedmormonman.blogspot.com/2012/02/he-keeps-going-and-going-and-going.html
We started seminary one day this week with just one student (out of 24) and the average # of students who are on time is 3. Two of them are children of the teachers. We try our best to start on time and it’s very hard to have a working seminary when no one is there. I feel like no one cares but us teachers. But we soldier on regardless.
I found in my own personal experience that what gets me to church early is when choir practice is before the meeting block. I can be late to choir, but still be on time for church. Another way to get me early to church is to call me as the ward organist. That way I practically live at the church building.
I think my being obsessive about being on time stems from having a mom who played the organ. On time was always 10-15 minutes early and I do that with my family now too. To me being late only shows that you don’t respect the Lord or the congregation enough to make being on time to church a priority.
I totally agree with you Lindsey. Good for your mom.
Sadly our early attendance isn’t awarded with organ prelude music in our ward. Our organist is on MST. Every single week without fail. No matter what time church starts. And she is now an empty nester…..no kids to get ready.
Even sadder….the bishopric tends to start the meeting late…..in hopes that the organist shows up and gives us a little prelude music. Yes…..there are others who are willing and can play the organ…..but as it’s been said before…..their excuse is “well, at least our organist does come to church”. *sigh* ; S
Thank you,Lindsey. I too think is a sign of disrespect to be habitual late It is disrespectul to ourselves as well as others. It says we can’t manage our time. We all have the same amount of time. Just do it. It will change your life! End of discussion
“End of discussion.” That’s funny!
I agree with the importance of being on time. Yes, we are on time to work and school. We were on time when church started at 10:50. We have not been on time much now that it starts at 9:00 (time changed at the New Year). I want to be on time, and we strive for that.
But, I also decided that I preferred the spirit in my home before church (and therefore during church and the rest of the day), which it was if I was not constantly harping, nagging, and getting increasingly frustrated with my teenager to leave at the correct time and rather just made sure we were still making progress in the goal of getting out the door to church.
Church is a half-hour drive away for us.
I have noticed that the earlier I get up, the better we do. So yes, some of the blame rests with me. But, I am waiting on her for us to leave.
Do I perhaps need to work harder on finding a solution that preserves the spirit in our home and gets us out the door on time? Yes. But, I am just speaking up for the people who are like us, are trying, do realize it is important, but are making some choices that are that–choices.
However, I am glad that meetings in our ward start on time. I would never expect anyone to wait for us. I need them to back me up that there *is* a proper start time.
Having the Spirit in our homes in the morning, AND being to church on time are not mutually exclusive. You can have both – you don’t need to just pick one. (And yes, it does take work.)
This makes me so frustrated. I don’t understand how people cannot seem to figure out how long it takes to get their families somewhere on time. In our stake we have Sacrament meeting last (I don’t know why and I hate it) and I was recently called into the primary presidency. Since they changed the schedule for primary to not have a opening all together the jr primary goes to classes first. So we have 3-7 year olds in classes all by themselves because their teachers can’t be bothered to get there on time. Most of the kids have parents who will sit with them until the teachers get there. But they shouldn’t have to! We’ve tried and tried to get them to get there early or at least on time but it’s not working yet. We usually start 10 min. late because of no pianist plus the kids assigned prayer, talk, scripture aren’t there yet either. I say we start on time and they’ll hopefully learn to get there on time. But the other presidency members don’t seem to want to do that. The RS starts late as well which I was pretty shocked by. Somehow the priesthood manages to start on time 🙂
I hate being late. Hate it. To anything, but especially to church. When I was YW pres, we *always* started on time, and, consequently, the girls made it on time. It would drive me crazy when the YM were in charge of combined activities, because they were never realistic about how long the activities would actually take, and then they wouldn’t start til 7:20, and then the Bishop and/or parents would be upset that kids weren’t getting out until 9:15 or so (kids that had seminary at 5:45 the next morning). I understood the frustration of those parents. And since my husband was in YM’s and I was in YW’s and all the teenagers were at mutual, our 2 and 4 year olds were usually with us, so it made me pretty grumpy, too.
We stayed with family for awhile before a move and they are notoriously late to everything. We were leaving to get to church a few minutes early and my nephew asked his mom “Why are they leaving so early?” She said “I don’t know.” I should have said “Church starts at 9 not 9:20” But since I didn’t think I could do without being snotty I kept my mouth shut. Then they would arrive during the sacrament hymn and people would have to shuffle down the row to make room for them. I’m not trying to say that my family is always on time and reverent but by teaching our kids that being ontime is respectful they will have a better chance of keeping that up when they are making their own choices away from home. I also remember reading a talk in the Ensign several years ago (by an apostle) that said the chapel doors should be closed and locked during the opening hymn and unlocked after the closing prayer.
We served a mission in Africa where tardiness was a problem. However, there was widespread fear that we were a devil church and did strange things in our meetings. One investigator was terrified when they closed the door for sacrament. She kept looking around for the devil to come out.
Teach about timeliness, yes. Feel frustrated by people going in and out during a sacred meeting, sure. But be careful about closing people out.
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It seems if this family was letting your family stay with them for “awhile” they must be really kind people. I would be more concerned about expressing my gratitude to them than complaining about them being late.
I think it’s ironic that my family is on time and even early now to 9 am church when 1 pm church we were having a hard time with. Why ? I knew 9 am would take preparation and scheduling our departure earlier than needed as mentioned in the comment above.
Yes! I HATE it when people think they need to start late because no one is there. When I was a youth my mom was made YW pres. She is ALWAYS early. So she made sure we always started on time. If we were going somewhere for an activity and said we were leaving at a certain time, we left… if someone got there 10 minutes late they didn’t get to come! I’m serving in YW now and trying to get us to be more prompt! It drives me crazy when it is 5 after and the leaders start looking around and mention that “maybe we should start.” Huge pet peeve of mine!
And I have found that when my husband was on the High Council or Bishopric I had a lot easier time being ready early with all my children than when he’s there to “help” me!
Lol. If you think Mormon Standard Time is frustrating, please come to our Branch. We were called to serve in a Spanish Branch with a VERY high convert to “born in” member ratio two years ago and we’ve noticed there are exactly three families there on time each week, the rest come straggling in according to “Spanish Mormon Standard Time,” then, while we were SINGING the opening song, people would be coming in and MINGLING as they went to their seats. About six months ago, the Branch President began standing at the pulpit 5 minutes before the meeting started until AFTER the first song to remind people how to act, even dedicated an entire Sacrament meeting to the importance of Sacrament meeting, arriving early, preparing ourselves during the prelude, etc. Since then, only one or two families still come in according to SMST and attempt to mingle. I truly think part of it is culture, part of it is just ignorance. Whether that ignorance can be attributed to lack of education regarding the sacred nature of Sacrament meeting and arriving in time to “prepare” or an irreverent “forgetting” the importance because we’re bogged down by (insert excuse here) and desperately NEED the reminder/education again is the question. Either way, I agree, you hit the nail on the head. Expect more, set the example, start the meetings, address the issue if needed, and people will catch on.
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Loved this. Thank you. I work with the seminary teachers in our Stake, and some of them are consistently giving only 15 minute lessons each morning because they insist on waiting for more students to arrive before they start. Some teachers have even started showing up late themselves because they never have “enough students” there to start on time. We have been trying and trying to work on this, to no avail. I may use some of your explanations to help our teachers. I love how you explained it–that puts it in a pretty clear perspective, and puts a greater deal of weight on the issue of tardiness, which often gets so easily brushed aside as insignificant. Well done.
Our trick to arriving to church on time (even with kids) is to set our departure time much earlier than necessary. We struggle with leaving on time, so if our goal is to leave by 8:30, we’re virtually guaranteed to leave by 8:40, putting us in our seats around 8:50–enough time to sit, enjoy the prelude music, and prepare ourselves to renew our covenants. Usually we’re even early enough to let kids get some wiggles out in the hall first, and still have time to sit for several minutes before the meeting starts, instead of rushing them straight from the car into their seats.
Can I say Amen!? This is a huge issue in our area of Zion too. It didn’t matter if our Sacrament started at 9am or 1PM. I have actually had a few brave souls (moms with young families)approach me for ideas on how to get their family to church on time. We have seven little ones all primary age or younger with #8 arriving this summer. For a few years I was the one getting everyone to church while my sweet husband had morning meetings. He’s home again and it’s lovely to have a relaxed morning together as a family before church (currently Sacrament begins at 9am).
Our family secret to getting ready? Head Shoulders Knees and Toes! On Saturday each child sings the song (or says it) and gathers anything they need for church related to that area of the body.
Head: glasses, hairbrush, tie, winter hat, etc.
Shoulders: Shirt or dress, underthings, coat.
Knees: Pants, skirt, underthings
Toes: Socks, shoes.
etc….
Older kids can help younger if needed, mom gets baby’s stuff ready and packs diaper bag.
Then in the morning all we do is eat, dress, and relax until time to go. (And I’ll be honest, if little ones get a spot on their clothes they don’t change, I would rather be on time than perfectly groomed.)
What a wonderful routine! I used to be pretty good about packing bags the night before when we had several in diapers at the same time but have gotten lax about it in the past few years. I’m about 50/50 about getting the girls to pick out their clothes on Saturday to make sure we have enough clean tights, but need to make a better effort for everyone.
Thank you for sharing what works for your family!
I wholeheartedly agree. I believe in being on time. I must say my teen daughter is trying my patience in this area. Luckily we live close enough to the church building that she can come later by herself if she is not ready.
And yeah, General conference starts and ends on time. AND they have plenty of time for the hymns. Our meetings often skip the rest hymn because the speakers are running over. I think the music is every bit as important as the speakers. Just venting.
Now Bishop, some of those who came in right after Sacrament arrived a little late, didn’t want to disturb and partook in the lobby. Don’t the AP close the doors during Sacrament to avoid disruption?
I would worry about the lobby dwellers for much the same reasons. If they are chronically late, or in the lobby, there is a dearth of understanding.